Curse

Mordakai · Oct 13, 2006, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

Mordakai can I ask you a question? Since the start of this thread you have clearly shown a negative feeling about geting 15k armor or expensive weapons because people have to grind for it and It's not a pleasent experience of the game, but dont you think thats a bit selfish? I mean, What business is it of yours if someone farms trolls for 10 hours to get 15k armor? Its their time, its their game, its their way of having fun, Mind your own business.

Huh? Where did you get that idea? I have 15k armor, why would I hate it?

If people want to grind for weapons or armor, that's fine.

I've repeated again and again, I could care less about skins. For me, Inscriptions are all about flexibility.

But, if Inscriptions come without a Merchant, they really aren't going to help me much at all. I'm not going to join the masses in spamming WTB 15^50 all day long...

Oh, and this site finally got blocked at my work, so there's one less person you'll have to argue with now! I won't be posting nearly as much. (Prob a good thing...)

Tijger · Oct 13, 2006, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

And after 66 pages the score is

Anti-Inscriptions = Worried about the game balance and the way people will get certain items in this game and that it will be very hard for newcomers to enjoy one of the few roleplaying experience of having goals to achieve such as collecting rare weapons.

People that want inscriptions = I WANT A ZODIAC 15^50 NOW NOW, STFU U ALREADY HAVE ONE SO YOUR OPINION DOESNT COUNT AND I DONT CARE IF YOU HAVE ONE I HAVE AS MUCH RIGHT TO HAVE ONE BECAUSE I BOUGHT THE GAME TOO.

xD flame away.

I'm all for being able to choose which mod to salvage including inscriptions, I dont give a rats ass about your Zodiac however.
If I wanted one I'd buy a cheap on and wait for inscriptions to come/

Why are you confusing weapon mods with skins btw? You dont make much sense, the fact that I'd rather be able to save a 15^50 mod then a +6 vs elemental mod has absolutely nothing to do with zodiac, crystalline or whatever other elitist craptastic stuff there is out there.

As for rights, you have whatever right Anet gives you. Anet is more interested in keeping the bulk of the casual players happy then a self proclaimed elite and thats fine with me.

garethporlest18 · Oct 13, 2006, 07:36 AM // 07:36

What I want to know is how are you going to make money now if all the prices for weapons drop? Selling 50g items to the merchant sure isnt' worth the time. We gonna have to actually farm all our Shards and Ecto for FoW armor?

Selling weapons and shields, that's the mass money making part of this game, and if all the prices drop under 5k that's no good. High priced weapons are a good thing for people who get them from drops, if you drop that then the newcomers, people who want expensive armors and what not, will not be making as much money as we need to buy things, or barely getting by.

Still the rich have their money so I suppose they rule over this part...I could care less about perfect weapons I want armor. But I need to sell those perfect weapons to get it, cause I'm not gonna grind farm all day long to get a measly 20k.

Erm I suppose perfect upgrades such as +30 or 20/20 will still be worth a little bit. Eh maybe I didn't think it through enough.

What I don't want is, for people to be able to choose and always get that mod. I don't care if I get them or not, I consider myself lucky if I do, so don't complain that you don't it's good you don't.

Sid Soggybottom · Oct 13, 2006, 07:45 AM // 07:45

I love how in one breath, anti-inscriptionists are telling people that they dont need rare skins but in the next breath they complain that prices will drop on items making it hard for them to get 15k or FOW armor.

Double standard there. What the anti's also cant seem to get into their heads is that not everyone wants the new salvaging system just to get rare skins.

Seriously letting something so superficial such as the value of items get in the way of implementing a better salvaging system is downright selfish. Improved gameplay features are far more important than the percieved value of an item that's supposed to be used in actual gameplay rather than be hoarded and traded around like some party favour.

garethporlest18 · Oct 13, 2006, 08:07 AM // 08:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

I love how in one breath, anti-inscriptionists are telling people that they dont need rare skins but in the next breath they complain that prices will drop on items making it hard for them to get 15k or FOW armor.

Double standard there. What the anti's also cant seem to get into their heads is that not everyone wants the new salvaging system just to get rare skins.

Seriously letting something so superficial such as the value of items get in the way of implementing a better salvaging system is downright selfish. Improved gameplay features are far more important than the percieved value of an item that's supposed to be used in actual gameplay rather than be hoarded and traded around like some party favour.

I said I don't need perfect weapons, I didn't say rare skins. I do however have a love for FoW armor. The new salvaging thing doesn't bother me as long as money is still being able to be made. I'm just fine using a req 10 15^50 with that being the only mod. In the term that I know about perfect that goes with this game, that isn't perfect

I mean I do like the fact that you can salvage them because it'd be nice to have 15^50 req 7 weapons, for my own self to glorify. I just want to still be able to make money, that's what I'm worried about.

manitoba1073 · Oct 13, 2006, 09:10 AM // 09:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sid Soggybottom

I love how in one breath, anti-inscriptionists are telling people that they dont need rare skins but in the next breath they complain that prices will drop on items making it hard for them to get 15k or FOW armor.

Double standard there. What the anti's also cant seem to get into their heads is that not everyone wants the new salvaging system just to get rare skins.

Seriously letting something so superficial such as the value of items get in the way of implementing a better salvaging system is downright selfish. Improved gameplay features are far more important than the percieved value of an item that's supposed to be used in actual gameplay rather than be hoarded and traded around like some party favour.

u do realize all mods on anything is a want and not a need, yeap superficial wanting something isnt it. u dont need any mods on anything they area compliment to a build not a need. its not about just rare skins. also its not the anti's taht are worried for themselves THEY ARE WORRIED FOR THE NEW PLAYERS. plzz take time to reread the entire posts, yes some do seem like that but not all of us.

still feel sorry for everyone that thinks any mod is a NEEDED thing, if u FEEL THEY ARE NEEDED u really need to rethink your play style. as i said before and ill say again even the mods area VANITY. yes that includes the inherents.

sixdartbart · Oct 13, 2006, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

While the intention is appreciated, it shows that you don't understand the way that some people play. An item that didn't drop for me or wasn't bought isn't mine - it will forever have someone elses taint on it. The point is not to have one the point is to get one.

So buying something removes taint???
Gonna have to start carrying more cash in matches and we can drop some condition removal...

Warrior/Merchant FTW

But seriously; You were trying to make the point about emotes that if you do it long enough you will get one right?
Same can be said for anything in the game and chaos axes are really really common (low req 15>50s included) if you have spent time there and not had one drop for you thats just bad luck but by no means should it be assumed that they are impossible to get or there wouldn't be so many thousands of them around.
Over a year ago it was still fairly uncommon to get a req 8 15>50 and they were priced accordingly but there are a hell of a lot more people hammering away at the spiders/chest runners/whatever else they do down there and they are very modestly priced for anyone willing to just go out and farm up 2.5 mill to get their FoW armor so if you really can remove "taint" with cash why not just get one and end your hunger?

cellardweller · Oct 13, 2006, 10:46 AM // 10:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by sixdartbart

So buying something removes taint???
Gonna have to start carrying more cash in matches and we can drop some condition removal...

Warrior/Merchant FTW

Missing words... from an npc (ie part of the game, not a person). If you read my other posts you'll see I'm not denying they'll drop now and then, and there are plenty on the market, but if they're just handed to you by a player then they're not earnt.

Here's the shopping list to equip one character - what do you think the odds are the odds of having all of the following drop for the same person with r12 or lower?
1) 15/-5 Longsword
2) 15^50 and 15 ench Flamberge or Fellblade
3) 15^stance buttefly/wingblade
4) 15/-5 Halo axe
5) 15^50 and 15/enchant chaos axe or gothic dual
6) 15^stance hand axe
7) 15^50 and 15/enchant tetsubo or plagueborn hammer
8) 15/-5 runic hamer
9) 15/stance Magmas arm

And thats just the weapons required to equip one character, and doesn't even include the extra elemental weapon of each type needed for killing other warriors. I can tell you that I have clocked almost 3k hours, at least 1/3 of that time farming, and not one thing on the shopping list has dropped.

I'll reiterate my argument again, because its seems to be getting lost. Inscriptions give players who want to earn items for themselves a realistic way to do so. Inscriptions do not take away any options from those that want to take the easy way out and buy them.

sixdartbart · Oct 13, 2006, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quite a shopping list.
I agree that having all of those drop for you would be a task, off the top of my head I can think of about 9 of the 19 items you have listed that I have had drop for me.

If you choose to only use things that you have found yourself thats great it's all about what each person wants to do and how they want to do it.
Personally I would have loved to have had any of the 100s of gold shadow shields that I found to have had the mods that I wanted, Sadly it never happened and finding them for sale was nearly as much work as killing for them but I don't feel dirty when I use them

But honestly did you farm every ecto and shard for both sets of fissure armor and if not how is that any different than buying a weapon?

If you did farm every shard for 2 sets of fissure armor and never got a 15>50 chaos axe you should go to pre searing/kill one of the rabbits and carry his severed foot in your backpack because thats just bad luck not getting one with that many trips into FoW

Franco · Oct 13, 2006, 12:40 PM // 12:40

ebay...

Quote:

We gonna have to actually farm all our Shards and Ecto for FoW armor?

lol what shards and ectos ?

Everything is nerfed, you get 1 or 2 ectos in like 1 hour of doing UW and 2 -3 shards of FOW.

And Im not really a expert but I dont think prices are going to drop, I think Im going to see lots of people spamming W.T.S SWORD INSCRIPTION 15^50 100K+XX ECTO, as I said before.

Abnaxus · Oct 13, 2006, 12:45 PM // 12:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by winkgood

I used to chest run a lot in FoW. Be in mind that this was before the increase in drop quality of rare items. 15^50's are MUCH more common than they used to be and I'll bet many of the 14^50 or weapons with no damage modifiers would have been 15^50's had I done those runs recently. These are some of the better chaos axe drops that I can remember of around 300 chest runs:

15^50 req 9 Chaos Axe
15^50 req 10 Chaos Axe
15^50 req 12 Chaos Axe
15 (stance) req 8 Chaos Axe
15 (enchanted) req 10 Chaos Axe
15 (vs hexed) req 8 Chaos Axe
20 (below 50) req 8 Chaos Axe
Several 14^50 req 8 or 9 Chaos Axes

Apprently you haven't been focussing your efforts in the right areas. Ever wonder where all those golds come from? It certainly doesn't come from solo farming random areas. If you want to find them yourself, then try chest running.

Muahahahaha!

300 chest runs means opening 300 chests or enter 300 times in FoW and open more than 1 chest each run?

If it means opening 300 chests, then 300x750g = 225k and just to get 1 single axe statwise acceptable.

This is one of the typical nonsense post of people inviting other players who are looking for a specific item do play the lottery and go chest running.
It's basically something comparable to this:

Someone tells you:
"I want to buy a flat I like, it used to cost 250.000$ so I worked a lot in latest years and saved 250.000$ but due to the real estate market speculations now they ask me the absurd price 500.000$, what should I do?"

You answer:
"Apprently you haven't been focussing your efforts in the right areas. (rofl)
Take all your dollars, go to Las Vegas and try the slot machines and roulette. If you play a lot, you will surely be able to earn the 500.000$ you need, I did the same!"

Again, ROFL

DeathByAmor · Oct 13, 2006, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

ebay...

lol what shards and ectos ?

Everything is nerfed, you get 1 or 2 ectos in like 1 hour of doing UW and 2 -3 shards of FOW.

And Im not really a expert but I dont think prices are going to drop, I think Im going to see lots of people spamming W.T.S SWORD INSCRIPTION 15^50 100K+XX ECTO, as I said before.

More people should learn how to solo UW and FoW and their drops will be much better. I average 4 ectos per run in UW and run takes 15 mins. I usually average 7 shards in FoW per run and run takes me about 20 mins. If I concentrate on UW for 3 hours a night I make anywhere from 35-50 ectos each night. Of course the solo is not as easy as it used to be before AoE, but once you do it about 10-15 times you get hella good at it and you become consistent.

leprekan · Oct 13, 2006, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Solo UW in 15 mins? Please PM me in game I am happy to pay 100k to see this solo uw build in 15mins. Or do you just do the cows at the start

Protective bond runs took 11-13 minutes and that was when you could agro EVERYTHING and there weren't nightmares.

Jetdoc · Oct 13, 2006, 02:31 PM // 14:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

To date, no one will answer as to what harm there could possibly be in me being able to shuffle mods around between my weapons creating the ones I want.

All arguments aside, I still have yet to have an answer regarding what harm there is with me salvaging inscriptions and making the weapons of my choice?

There is no harm with YOU doing it, because you aren't dumping those inscriptions onto the market.

However, many, many players will simply take those inscriptions and sell them to other players. Those same players will also sell low requirement rare skin items (white, blue, etc.) to those same players. With a relatively small amount of gold, they have the perfect item.

And at surmnym (sp?) - you harping about your 20/20 necromancer zodiac items is EXACTLY what makes them what you desire. That is simply a goal for you in game - to either acquire these items from your own playing, or to gain enough wealth so that you can acquire them when you find someone actually selling them.

Now, let's say that you go down the "instant gratification route" and you are able to compile these items very quickly after the inscriptions come to pass. How happy will you be with them? Will you use them, forsaking all other items, for the next year?

Chances are that you have what you want, and you will likely be attracted to the latest "shiny" thing...which you can acquire in two seconds via trading. After a short while, the skin of items becomes relatively meaningless to you, as you come to realize that anything is obtainable very quickly for very cheap.

So what then? That is a goal of the game that is completely removed from your playing experience. Yes, there are other goals that you can pursue, but to me eliminating that goal definitely reduces the Guild Wars experience.

Jetdoc · Oct 13, 2006, 02:42 PM // 14:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by cellardweller

Inscriptions give players who want to earn items for themselves a realistic way to do so. Inscriptions do not take away any options from those that want to take the easy way out and buy them.

You're missing something in your post.

1. Yes, for players that solely use items that they find in game, inscriptions are an incredible boon and a very nice change for the game.

2. Yes, inscriptions are very nice for players that want to buy the rare skin they desire with the perfect modifiers immediately for cheap.

3. No, inscriptions HURT players who want to achieve that same rare skin item with perfect modifiers, but don't follow the "pureist" route of #1 above. These players play the game, obtain items and gold, and sell those items to accumulate enough gold to BUY that perfect item from someone else. The accumulation of that wealth is a by-product of playing the game, and that rare item is part of their "reward" for doing so.

For example, to accumulate enough wealth to purchase a Magmas Shield with perfect (or near perfect) modifiers, a player may have to play the game (I'm not saying farming - I'm saying PLAY the game) for 200 hours.

Under the inscription system, they can obtain that same Magmas Shield by purchasing a white, req 8 one and the perfect inscription by accumulating enough wealth - but that only takes them 20 hours to do so.

That means that, after 1/10th of the gameplaying experience, they have obtained that goal. What does that mean? That goal is now eliminated for them.

Now, you argue - FASTER = GOOD, right? Take a look at all of the players' complaints about Factions...the majority of the complaints are about how "short" Factions was. Another major complaint was how quickly in Factions you (1) got to level 20 and (2) got max armor. Complaints about "instant gratification".

In short, more gameplaying goals generally means more satisfaction with the product. Instant gratification generally means very quick satisfaction, and then disillusionment because of "being bored".

DeathByAmor · Oct 13, 2006, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

Solo UW in 15 mins? Please PM me in game I am happy to pay 100k to see this solo uw build in 15mins. Or do you just do the cows at the start

Protective bond runs took 11-13 minutes and that was when you could agro EVERYTHING and there weren't nightmares.

No need for you to watch me do the run as I just learned how to do the run from this thread...

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10055205

VERY VERY simple to do once you get the hang of it. It is almost scary. If you go through that thread there is a video of him doing it. At first it took me about 25-30 mins to do it and then I realized that I needed to get the attxes to waste their interupts. Now it is much faster and the smites and the coldfires are so unbelievably easy that it is scary. Spirit Bond will get a nerf for sure though...but not before I have made several hundred ecto off it.

DeathByAmor · Oct 13, 2006, 02:55 PM // 14:55

Do I still get 100k...

Jetdoc · Oct 13, 2006, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franco

And Im not really a expert but I dont think prices are going to drop, I think Im going to see lots of people spamming W.T.S SWORD INSCRIPTION 15^50 100K+XX ECTO, as I said before.

Very quickly...

How much does a sword pommel of fortitude go for nowadays? About 40K.

Now think - that sword pommel is VERY difficult to obtain. Even if you find a sword with a +30 health modifier on it, the chances of you getting that modifier through expert salvage is only 33%.

Weapons (remember - this includes high requirement, crappy skins AND non-max weapons) with 15>50 modifiers drop much more often than +30 health swords.

And with the proposed changes, you would be GUARANTEED of getting that modifier. No more 67% chance of losing it.

Now what does that mean? More frequent drops, lower risk of not getting the item...means that more of these will be available. More available = more supply = cheaper in price than the current fortitude pommels.

I believe that anyone thinking that the market for these inscriptions will be higher than 50K is really not forming a reasonable expectation.

Theus · Oct 13, 2006, 03:12 PM // 15:12

I weep for your E-Peen Jetdoc.

Please.

Abnaxus · Oct 13, 2006, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

For example, to accumulate enough wealth to purchase a Magmas Shield with perfect (or near perfect) modifiers, a player may have to play the game (I'm not saying farming - I'm saying PLAY the game) for 200 hours.

Under the inscription system, they can obtain that same Magmas Shield by purchasing a white, req 8 one and the perfect inscription by accumulating enough wealth - but that only takes them 20 hours to do so.

That means that, after 1/10th of the gameplaying experience, they have obtained that goal. What does that mean? That goal is now eliminated for them.

Now, you argue - FASTER = GOOD, right? Take a look at all of the players' complaints about Factions...the majority of the complaints are about how "short" Factions was. Another major complaint was how quickly in Factions you (1) got to level 20 and (2) got max armor. Complaints about "instant gratification".

In short, more gameplaying goals generally means more satisfaction with the product. Instant gratification generally means very quick satisfaction, and then disillusionment because of "being bored".

Are you sure that the current system is perfect as it is and doesn't give any "instant gratifications"?

With the current system, that has artificially created the 100k+XXXectos items, a player can have the luck of opening a chest in Ring of Fire, find a req. 8 15>50 sephis, sell it for 200 ectos et voilà, "instant" FoW armor, with no work and no gratification in your view.

Your example of the magma shield is flawed, simply because the amount of time and "work" you have to do to get a perfect one is unpredictable, because 1) the final price is not fixed, and 2) the moment when a perfect magma pops up somewhere is unpredictable too.

Maybe a player can start to collect let's say 1 million for it.
Unfortunately ... when he has reached 500k the shield he likes is put on sale and in that moment he can't afford.
Then he continues to collect gold gold gold, and waits waits waits ... but no shield.
After a while he reaches 1 million, then luckily someone put an auction for that shield, he offers his hard earned 1 million but ... someone else places an offer for 2 million and ... shield gone.
Frustration at its worst.

If someone decides today to get a FoW armor, he knows that he has to get roughly 1,5 million in gold and materials, assuming that the price of materials is slightly fluctuating and doesn't have sudden spikes.

With an average yield of 10k per hour, it's reasonable to assume that with 150 hours this player can collect day by day all gold and rare material required.
When this has been done, nothing on earth will negate to that player his FoW armor, no other player can offer more to the forgemaster and take the amor away from him.

This is the difference between a realistic target (FoW) and the market of what some players have decided to define rare weapons.